Question:
Thanks again for your response. I have read some Calvinists works but also many non-Calvinists. I accept that a person cannot be born again without hearing the Gospel. What I am not sure about is what decides a man’s response to that Gospel. It seems to me that we have two options:
1) It is man’s free will decision to accept the Gospel. In this case I do not see the logic of thanking God that we accepted it, or praying for other people that they would accept it.
2) A man believes the Gospel based on whether God blesses the Gospel to that man. In this case God is fully responsible for our salvation and we can logically thank Him for it.
You say that man has a choice to love, or to hate Him….but doesn’t every unregenerate man hate God? Aren’t we all, by nature, like the rich young man – lovers of money more than God? What makes a Christian different? I mean, is a person born again because they choose to love God? I accept that no man is forced to either accept or reject Christ, so in one sense it is down to that man’s free will – but isn’t every decision we make rational? Surely a person will accept or reject Christ based solely on whether they feel to need salvation – and surely unregenerate man doesn’t believe that he needs salvation?
Answer:
Questions & Answers:
Question:
1) It is man’s free will decision to accept the Gospel. In this case I do not see the logic of thanking God that we accepted it, or praying for other people that they would accept it.
Answer:
The Biblical example is that every Christian should pray for others to be saved. Romans 10:1-3 says, “1 Brethren, my heart’s desire AND PRAYER TO GOD FOR ISRAEL IS, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. 2 For I bear them record that THEY HAVE A ZEAL OF GOD, BUT NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.”
As I mentioned before, it causes God to wonder when no one cares enough to be praying for others to be saved. Isaiah 59:16 says, “16 And he saw that there was no man, AND WONDERED THAT THERE WAS NO INTERCESSOR: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.”
We are commanded to pray for all men — the end result being that the conditions would be favorable for the spreading of the truth of God’s Word. 1 Timothy 2:1-4 says, “1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, PRAYERS, intercessions, and giving of thanks, BE MADE FOR ALL MEN; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
Question:
You say that man has a choice to love, or to hate Him….but doesn’t every unregenerate man hate God?
Answer:
Look at Romans 10:1-3 again. Those people do not hate God. They are actively trying to please God and do things for Him, but the problem is that they are doing it in ignorance. “2 For I bear them record that THEY HAVE A ZEAL OF GOD, BUT NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.”
Notice that it was the same case with Cornelius in Acts 10:1-6, “1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, 2 A devout man, and ONE THAT FEARED GOD with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, AND PRAYER TO GOD ALWAY. 3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. 4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. 5 And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter: 6 He lodgeth with one Simon a tanner, whose house is by the sea side: HE SHALL TELL THEE WHAT THOU OUGHTEST TO DO.” And we know that it was in regard to salvation. Acts 11:13-14 says, “13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 WHO SHALL TELL THEE WORDS, WHEREBY THOU AND ALL THY HOUSE SHALL BE SAVED.” Cornelius did not hate God, he was trying to serve God, but he was doing it in ignorance.
Question:
2) A man believes the Gospel based on whether God blesses the Gospel to that man. In this case God is fully responsible for our salvation and we can logically thank Him for it.
Answer:
That statement is pure Calvinism, and is not true according to the Scripture. If that statement were true, then Romans 10:13 could not be true. “For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” That means “anyone.” But if God “only blesses the gospel” to certain people, then NOT EVERYONE can truly call upon the name of the Lord and be saved.
If a person can only get saved if God “blesses the gospel” to that person, then that would also make 2 Peter 3:9 untrue. “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE.” That says that God is “NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE.”
If it is really God that is hindering people from getting saved, because He is not “blessing the gospel” to those people — then the problem is really God — not those people. It is not a problem with people not loving God, but a problem with God not loving people enough to want them to be saved; and thus, “blessing the gospel” to them. That is not logical thinking at all, but blasphemous thinking. (blaspheme = “1 : to speak of or address with irreverence 2 : revile, abuse” – Merriam-Webster’s 11th Collegiate Dictionary).
Questions:
1) It is man’s free will decision to accept the Gospel. In this case I do not see the logic of thanking God that we accepted it, or praying for other people that they would accept it.
2) A man believes the Gospel based on whether God blesses the Gospel to that man. In this case God is fully responsible for our salvation and we can logically thank Him for it.
Answer:
Are your statements logical? (logic = “a particular mode of reasoning viewed as valid or faulty” Merriam-Webster’s 11th Collegiate Dictionary). I would have to say that your statements are faulty. If a man has the free will to accept the gospel, is it logical to then think that he should not thank God for saving him?
Is it logical to not pray and thank God for loving us so much that He was willing to send His Son to earth to suffer and die for our sins, so that we might have the opportunity to be saved? (John 3:16 says, “FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.).
Is it logical to not pray and thank God for preserving His pure Word so that we could hear the truth of the gospel and have the chance to accept it? (Psalms 12:6-7 says, “6 THE WORDS OF THE LORD ARE PURE WORDS: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, THOU SHALT PRESERVE THEM FROM THIS GENERATION FOR EVER.” 1 Peter 1:23-25 says, “23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURETH FOR EVER. And THIS IS THE WORD WHICH BY THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED UNTO YOU.’)
Is it logical to not pray and thank God for Him asking for volunteers who will go and faithfully give out His Word so others can hear it and have a chance to be saved? (Isaiah 6:8 says, “Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, WHOM SHALL I SEND, and WHO WILL GO for us? Then said I, HERE AM I; SEND ME.” Romans 10:13-17 says, “13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and HOW SHALL THEY HEAR WITHOUT A PREACHER? 15 And HOW SHALL THEY PREACH, EXCEPT THEY BE SENT? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 BUT THEY HAVE NOT ALL OBEYED THE GOSPEL. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”) Is it logical to not thank God for calling those men to preach? Is it logical to not thank God that at least some men do respond and are willing to share the truth with those who are yet lost, and will continue preaching despite those who do not obey and respond to the gospel?
Your statements are not logical, but show the extreme ungratefulness of mankind to God for what He has done. Unthankfulness is a characteristic of the end times. 2 Timothy 3:1-2 says, “1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, UNTHANKFUL, unholy…”
Question:
I accept that no man is forced to either accept or reject Christ, so in one sense it is down to that man’s free will – but isn’t every decision we make rational?
Answer:
Millions of decisions are made every hour in this world that are not “rational.” (rational = “having reason or understanding” Merriam-Webster’s 11th Collegiate Dictionary). Every time a person lights up a cigarette, that person just made an “irrational” decision. (irrational = “(1) : not endowed with reason or understanding (2) : lacking usual or normal mental clarity or coherence b : not governed by or according to reason” Merriam-Webster’s 11th Collegiate Dictionary). Lighting up a cigarette shows that a person does not have understanding or normal mental clarity. The smoke from that cigarette is depositing things in that person’s lungs that are harmful. Is that rational? That smoke will turn his teeth and fingers yellow, and will make his breath smell like smoke. Is that rational? That smoke smell will saturate his clothing, his car, his home, and everyone who is in his presence while he is smoking. Is that rational?
Millions of people today will make the decision to drink alcohol. Is that a rational decision? No. Proverbs 20:1 says, “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is NOT WISE.”
Millions of people today will be immoral with someone. Is that a rational decision? No. Proverbs 6:32-33 says, “32 But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul. 33 A wound and dishonour shall he get; and his reproach shall not be wiped away.” 1 Corinthians 6:18 says, “Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.”
Question:
Surely a person will accept or reject Christ based solely on whether they feel to need salvation – and surely unregenerate man doesn’t believe that he needs salvation?
Answer:
Once again, your statement is pure Calvinism (total depravity of mankind — to the extent that he does not even have the power to realize that he needs Christ, or needs to repent and turn to Christ). That unscriptural teaching makes the command to “repent” an impossible thing for man to do. (repent = “1 : to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one’s life; 2 a : to feel regret or contrition b : to change one’s mind” Merriam-Webster’s 11th Collegiate Dictionary).
It is clear that God commands all men to repent — to turn from their sin to Him. They are obviously unregenerate at that point; and, yet, God is commanding them to stop, realize their need, and turn to Him. Luke 13:2-3 says, “2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, EXCEPT YE REPENT, YE SHALL ALL LIKEWISE PERISH.” Matthew 3:1-2 says, “1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, REPENT YE: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17 says, “From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, REPENT: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Acts 3:19 says, “REPENT YE therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;” Acts 17:30 says, “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now COMMANDETH ALL MEN EVERY WHERE TO REPENT:” If man was “totally” depraved to the point where he could not even make the decision on his own to turn from his sin to God, then those verses would be unfair and impossible demands to place upon mankind. That would be a cruel God demanding that man do something which it was impossible to do. Once again, that is blasphemy. Pure Calvinism does not exalt God as sovereign (as they like to maintain), it actually blasphemes His name by making Him out to be a cruel God who ordained a few to be in His presence in heaven, and the majority to spend eternity in torment in the flames of the lake of fire.
Notice in the New Testament how many demon-possessed people came to Christ. Satan and his fallen angels may have been controlling their bodies, but these people had the desire to come to Christ, and Satan and his host could not stop them.
God allows certain things to come into people’s lives to show them that they need to repent and turn to Him. One such example was the Philippian jailor. Acts 16:25-34 says, “25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. 26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one’s bands were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, HE DREW OUT HIS SWORD, AND WOULD HAVE KILLED HIMSELF, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and CAME TREMBLING, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, SIRS, WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.”
That is just one way that God has shown a person that he needs to repent and get saved. That man almost killed himself, but he saw his need through that, and even asked how he could be saved. That was not God “blessing the gospel” to him. That was a repentant man asking that the gospel be told unto him. God uses all sorts of means to get people to realize their emptiness apart from Him. When they finally humble themselves and see themselves as a lost sinner, and Jesus as the perfect Son of God and Savior, then they are ready to be saved. Matthew 18:2-3 says, “2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” James 4:6-10 says, “6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 DRAW NIGH TO GOD, AND HE WILL DRAW NIGH TO YOU. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”